{"id":19870,"title":"Ronald Ophuis - 1998 - Boots and Slippers [EN, interview]","dimensions":"5 p.","date_begin":null,"material":"","art_status_id":13,"legal_status_id":47,"category_id":168,"platform_id":1,"deleted":false,"asset_count":0,"stream_count":0,"collection":"Hans Theys Archive / Archief Hans Theys","cached_tag_list":"","publishing_process_id":1,"annotation":"","date_end":null,"reference":"","stream_count_app":8,"permalink":"ronald-ophuis-1998-boots-and-slippers-en-interview","description_ca":"","short_description_ca":"","description_it":"","short_description_it":"","cached_primary_asset_url":null,"cached_actor_names":"","hide_from_json":true,"prev_platform_id":null,"description_uk":null,"short_description_uk":null,"description_tr":null,"short_description_tr":null,"mhka_works":false,"category":{"en":"Interview","nl":"","fr":""},"poster_image":null,"poster_credits":null,"translations":[{"locale":"en","short_description":"","description":"\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n__________\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nHans Theys\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cb\u003eBoots and Slippers\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nA conversation with Ronald Ophuis\u003c/b\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003ci\u003eMonday, 20 July. Ronald Ophuis has tidied his studio. Brushes and palette knives have been sorted into separate piles. A row of palettes has been propped up against the wall. His painting clothes are hanging in a corner. On the wall is a large portrait of a young black man who is holding up a gun. He is leaning slightly backwards and you can sense his skinny legs through his jeans. The sandal on his left foot reveals crooked toes. Next to a number of opened art books is a row of photos of a fat man and a blonde woman with naked breasts, her right hand is holding a wooden handle that is wedged between the man\u0026#39;s legs. Above the sink is the portrait that Holbein made of his wife and two children just before he left for London. Ophuis\u0026nbsp;shows me a small book called \u0026lsquo;Piss on it\u0026rsquo; (Een ondergezeken pistool) and was written by the Russian poet Aleksandr Brener, who was sent to prison for five months in the Netherlands for spraying a green dollar sign on a painting by Malevitch. I open the book and discover that the poet once disrupted a cultural event by dressing up as Batman and yelling out \u0026#39;Batman forever!\u0026#39; He also attempted to give a pair of slippers to a general \u0026ldquo;so that he would be less inclined to think of boots\u0026rdquo;. Country music is wafting softly from small loudspeakers. And it is Ophuis who asks the first question.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Do you know this music?\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Hank Williams?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Yes\u0026hellip; Just regular, everyday stories. I find them powerful. When I was a kid, I tried to draw comic books but I never got beyond the title page because I couldn\u0026#39;t make up stories. I want my paintings to tell stories.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Do you have a story for your next painting?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; I\u0026#39;d like to make a painting about old people in a convalescent home. I\u0026#39;m pretty clear about that. Now the question is whether they will be sleeping on their beds or sitting on chairs. Are they in a rehabilitation room, are they bowling or do they have to be bathed? All that\u0026#39;s something that still has to be worked out. I also want to make a painting about the Second World War. Right now, I\u0026#39;m reading books written by people who survived the concentration camps. And I\u0026#39;d like to paint it in the same way as the painting by Van Eyck that you can see over there: the one with the three crosses. It\u0026rsquo;s a painting with lots of people and up till now I\u0026#39;ve never included more than four or five people in a painting.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Do you always work on one painting at a time?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Yes. I\u0026rsquo;ve just finished \u0026rsquo;Miscarriage\u0026rsquo;. Generally, I spend three or four months working on a single painting but this time it\u0026#39;s taken almost a year. Not because of problems with the painting, but due to other factors in my life. In fact, it\u0026#39;s still incomplete. The drawing of the woman\u0026#39;s head is slightly to sharp. At first, I liked it that way but since then I made a drawing that I think works better.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Why have you painted the tiles in relief?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Because I believe that\u0026rsquo;s the best way to paint tiles. You can feel that they\u0026rsquo;re tiles.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Van Eyck wouldn\u0026rsquo;t have painted them in that way.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; No, but Rembrandt would have.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- There\u0026rsquo;s an iron clamp that attaches the lead pipe to the wall. The relief technique gives it a humorous appearance. \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis : I\u0026rsquo;m particularly pleased with that dingy brown layer of glue where a sticker has been removed.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Why do you read books about Piero della Francesca and El Greco?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Because Piero della Francesca made a painting with an old man and an old woman\u0026hellip; I don\u0026#39;t know many painters who have painted old people\u0026hellip; Recently I\u0026#39;ve been studying El Greco\u0026#39;s work because he uses so much white. That\u0026#39;s something that l always do although I\u0026#39;m trying to change my ways. Yet, when I try a different approach, it ends up looking yellow-ish\u0026hellip; And for me, it ceases to be credible because it looks like something that was painted.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- You could also opt to paint in layers. \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Yes, but then each layer would have to succeed immediately because you can\u0026#39;t make corrections without having to start the whole thing over again.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Where did you meet the toilet bowl? \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: In a house where I used to live.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- And you went back there to photograph it? \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Yes.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- On your studio floor are photos of a corpulent man behind the wheel of his modest family car who\u0026#39;s being jerked off by a prostitute. Do you first direct these scenes and then photograph them? \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; I do.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Bacon also worked from photographs. \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; As did Munch and Courbet. I think \u0026lsquo;The Funeral at 0rnans\u0026rsquo; was made from photograph. And then there\u0026#39;s Max Beckmann\u0026hellip; This is a great work by Beckmann\u0026hellip;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- \u0026lsquo;The Night\u0026rsquo; from 1918. What do you like about it? Is it the composition?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; It\u0026#39;s the composition but also the narrative elements\u0026hellip; The fact that she\u0026#39;s naked\u0026hellip; those shoes\u0026hellip; that the man is strung up\u0026hellip; the pipe in his mouth\u0026hellip; the sickle moon, that it\u0026#39;s all taking place in a living room and you still believe it.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Do you like Soutine?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; There\u0026rsquo;s a painting by him called \u0026lsquo;Mother and Child\u0026rsquo; that I really like. I can\u0026#39;t paint things that simple. I always need a strong subject so as to be able to create a similar level of emotion.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- There\u0026#39;s a scene in your painting \u0026lsquo;Soccer Players l\u0026rsquo; where a number of players are holding down a team mate and are shoving the neck of a Coca Cola bottle between his buttocks. Is this something you\u0026#39;ve actually experienced? \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Yes. I\u0026#39;ve played soccer for years. And that\u0026#39;s what happened. The mud on the floor from your boots, the shirts and the changing room looked just like that.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Why was that kid picked on? \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; He was rather stout.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Like the stout guy in the film \u0026lsquo;Deliverance\u0026rsquo; whose backside is exposed when he tries to scramble away. \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; And who is forced to grunt like a pig\u0026hellip; I was really impressed by that film. I first saw it one evening at home\u0026hellip; Later I realized that these things also happen here. Not just amongst the Cajuns in remote areas of the United States but also right here in the Netherlands. Here too, there are villages that are both relatively isolated and religiously fundamentalist. Outsiders are excluded and the inhabitants have little contact with the \u0026lsquo;outside\u0026rsquo; world. These things happen here as well. Inbreeding\u0026hellip; It wasn\u0026#39;t that bad in Hengelo, at least not quite\u0026hellip; But take, for instance, my painting \u0026lsquo;Boy and Girl\u0026rsquo;. The scene is in a kind of park, in a lake area. When I went back some years ago to take photos, it all looked far more threatening than the way I remembered it. There was a marshy bit where the gay men met, there was a beautiful island for the nudists and there was also a place where the weirdos congregated. One evening I was lying there with a girlfriend and we were disturbed by someone constantly riding back and forth on a moped until finally I chucked a beer bottle at him. At exactly the moment that realized that he was a relative of mine, another relative was emerging from the bushes behind me\u0026hellip;\u0026nbsp;\u003ci\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Two realities that exist simultaneously: a harmonious one and a sinister version. This sounds like something out of a David Lynch film. \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Yes, like in \u0026lsquo;Blue Velvet\u0026rsquo; where first you see a pleasant scene of a man watering his lawn and then the camera zooms into the auditory duct of a severed ear.\u003ci\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- In \u0026lsquo;Fire Walk with Me\u0026rsquo;, the image is like a fragile membrane stretched across the white noise which occasionally breaks through.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Really? always thought that there was something wrong with the copy I rented.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- When Laura Palmer is murdered in the train carriage they added several frames of graphically designed lightening to the noise.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; I didn\u0026#39;t know that.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- In your painting \u0026lsquo;Boy and Girl\u0026rsquo; the intimacy is palpable yet is virtually disintegrating in the noise of the leprous and clotting paint. The scenes in your paintings often take place in enclosed spaces. In \u0026#39;Sweet Violence\u0026#39; even the ceiling has been painted yet in \u0026#39;Boy and Girl, where the theme seems to be the intimacy between people, you were left feeling unprotected. Even the yoghurt-shake carton is left standing on its own.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; When my panting \u0026lsquo;Sweet Violence\u0026rsquo; was removed from an exhibition in 1997, I sued the Dutch state because I did not want to be viewed as a painter of child pornography. Finally, the authorities were forced to return the painting to the show. I hadn\u0026#39;t expected that a painting could cause so much commotion.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- People think that the things that aren\u0026#39;t discussed simply don\u0026#39;t exist. And then you depict them.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; The opponents of \u0026lsquo;Sweet Violence\u0026rsquo; feel that a painting should not be too explicit. If the viewer can use his or her imagination to complete the suggested scene, they feel that there is no need to show more\u0026hellip; Do you know \u0026lsquo;The Judgement of Cambyses\u0026rsquo;? It\u0026#39;s a diptych by Gerard David. The story comes from Persia and concerns a judge who is condemned and is flayed alive. The painting was intended to promote the integrity of judges. Look, here it is\u0026hellip;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- The judge is wearing boots and slippers. In the first painting, he is wearing them on top of each other and in the second painting they are standing at the foot of the torture table\u0026hellip; \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Perhaps there\u0026#39;s not enough blood but otherwise I don\u0026#39;t see that much has been left viewer\u0026#39;s imagination\u0026hellip;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- You mentioned earlier that you\u0026#39;re currently reading about people who survived the German concentration camps. Are you also familiar with the work of Primo Levi?\u0026nbsp;\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: My decision to make a painting about the Second World War is actually based on the end of Levi\u0026#39;s book \u0026lsquo;If This ls A Man\u0026rsquo;. The Germans have abandoned Auschwitz but, although they expect that the allies will arrive soon, the ailing inmates still have to try to survive. They have barricaded themselves in the field hospital so as to protect themselves against the dying. Constantly they hear the cries of people perishing. Then they discover potatoes. They dig up a mass of frozen potatoes and they begin to cook for each other: potato soup and other dishes with potatoes. That\u0026#39;s an extraordinary moment. I once made a painting of people sitting in a kind of hut eating soup. During the opening of the show, an old lady kept approaching me with all kinds of questions although I couldn\u0026#39;t quite work out why. But then she told me that she\u0026#39;d been in a Japanese camp and that my painting reminded her of that. Later I read that at first Anselm Kiefer\u0026#39;s paintings were mainly bought by Jewish collectors and I thought that perhaps they did this because Kiefer\u0026#39;s aesthetic makes sense of what they have been through. Now I believe that they may experience the paintings as a kind of liberation because their trauma is actually being discussed. It is difficult for them to talk about the past because nobody understands them. Even if the artist has never experienced anything so terrible, perhaps these people are happy that he or she has tried to give shape to the horror and may have possibly succeeded.\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nMontagne de Miel, 27 July 1998\u003c/p\u003e\r\n"},{"locale":"nl","short_description":"","description":"\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n__________\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nHans Theys\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cstrong\u003eLaarzen en pantoffels\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nEen gesprek met Ronald Ophuis\u003c/strong\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cem\u003eMaandag, 20 juli 1998. Ronald Ophuis heeft zijn atelier opgeruimd. Penselen en paletmessen liggen op aparte stapeltjes. Een rij paletten staat schuin tegen de muur. In een hoek hangen zijn verfkleren. Aan de muur hangt een groot portret van een jongen die een geweer in de lucht houdt. Hij staat een beetje achterover gebogen, je voelt zijn magere benen door de spijkerbroek. De ontbrekende neus van zijn linker sandaal onthult scheve tenen. Naast een aantal opengeslagen kunstboeken ligt een rij foto\u0026rsquo;s van een dikke man en een blonde vrouw met ontblote borsten die met de rechterhand een tussen zijn benen geklemd houten handvat vasthoudt. Boven het aanrecht hangt een reproductie van het portret dat Holbein van zijn vrouw en twee kinderen heeft gemaakt voor hij naar Londen vertrok. Ophuis toont mij een boekje dat hij pas uit heeft. Het heet \u0026lsquo;Een ondergezeken pistool\u0026rsquo; en het werd geschreven door de Russische dichter Aleksandr Brener, de man die in Nederland werd veroordeeld tot vijf maanden gevangenisstraf omdat hij een groen dollarteken op een schilderij van Malevitsj heeft gespoten. Ik sla het boekje open en ik lees dat de dichter ooit een cultureel evenement heeft verstoord door zich te verkleden als Batman en luid \u0026lsquo;Batman Forever\u0026rsquo; te roepen. Ook heeft hij eens een paar pantoffels aangeboden aan een generaal, \u0026lsquo;opdat die minder aan laarzen zou denken\u0026rsquo;. Uit de kleine luidsprekers klinkt zachtjes countrymuziek. Ophuis stelt de eerste vraag.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: Ken je deze muziek?\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Hank Williams?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: Ja\u0026hellip; Gewone, alledaagse verhalen. Dat vind ik sterk. Toen ik klein was, probeerde ik stripverhalen te tekenen, maar ik kwam nooit verder dan de titelpagina, omdat ik geen verhaal kon verzinnen. Toch zou ik willen dat mijn schilderijen een verhaal vertellen.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Heb je al een verhaal voor je volgende schilderij?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: Ik zou graag een schilderij maken over oude mensen in een verpleegtehuis. Dat staat al min of meer vast. Nu vraag ik me alleen nog af of ze op een bed zullen liggen slapen of op een stoel zullen zitten. Bevinden ze zich in een rehabilitatieruimte, zijn ze aan het bowlen of moeten ze gewassen worden? Dat moet ik nog uitmaken. Ik wil ook graag een schilderij maken over de tweede wereldoorlog. Momenteel lees ik boeken die geschreven zijn door mensen die de kampen overleefd hebben. En dat zou ik graag schilderen zoals dat schilderij van Van Eyck, met de drie kruisen, waarvan je daar een reproductie ziet, een schilderij waarop veel mensen staan. Tot nog toe heb ik hooguit vier of vijf personages op een schilderij geschilderd.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Je werkt altijd aan \u0026eacute;\u0026eacute;n schilderij tegelijk?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: Ja. \u0026lsquo;De miskraam\u0026rsquo; heb ik pas afgemaakt. Meestal werk ik drie, vier maanden aan een schilderij, maar nu duurde het bijna een jaar. Niet door schilderproblemen, maar door priv\u0026eacute;omstandigheden. Het is nog niet af, trouwens. Het hoofd van de vrouw is iets te scherp getekend. Eerst vond ik het wel goed, maar ik heb een tekening gemaakt die ik beter geslaagd vind.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Waarom heb je de tegels in reli\u0026euml;f geschilderd?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: Omdat ik dat de beste manier vind om tegels te schilderen. Je voelt dat het tegels zijn.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Van Eyck zou ze niet zo schilderen.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: Neen, maar Rembrandt wel.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Die ijzeren klem, waarmee de loden pijp aan de muur vastzit, vind ik wel grappig, door het reli\u0026euml;f.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: Ik vind vooral dat bruin geworden laagje lijm van een verwijderd stickertje geslaagd.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Waarom lees je boeken over Piero della Francesca en El Greco?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: Omdat Piero della Francesca een schilderij heeft gemaakt met een oude vrouw en een oude man\u0026hellip; Ik ken niet veel schilders die oude mensen hebben geschilderd\u0026hellip; De laatste tijd kijk ik veel naar het werk van El Greco, omdat hij altijd zoveel wit gebruikt. Dat doe ik ook altijd, maar ik wil er vanaf. Maar als ik het anders probeer, dan wordt het zo gelig\u0026hellip; Dan geloof ik er niet meer in, omdat het eruitziet alsof het in 1600 geschilderd is.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Je kan ook in verschillende lagen schilderen, zonder wit te gebruiken.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: Ja, maar dan moet elke laag meteen goed zijn en kun je niets meer corrigeren zonder helemaal overnieuw te beginnen.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Waar heb je die toiletpot gezien?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: In een huis waar ik vroeger woonde.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- En je bent hem gaan fotograferen?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: Ja.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Op de vloer van je atelier liggen foto\u0026rsquo;s van een gezette man die zich achter het stuur van zijn bescheiden gezinswagen laat aftrekken door een prostituee. Eerst regisseer je deze sc\u0026egrave;nes en dan fotografeer je ze?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: Ja.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Bacon werkte ook naar foto\u0026rsquo;s.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: Munch en Courbet ook. \u0026lsquo;De begrafenis in Ornan\u0026rsquo; werd gemaakt naar een foto, denk ik. En Max Beckmann\u0026hellip; Kijk, dit vind ik een mooi werk van Beckmann\u0026hellip;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- \u0026lsquo;De nacht\u0026rsquo;, uit 1918. Wat vind je er zo mooi aan? De compositie?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eDe compositie, maar ook de verhalende elementen\u0026hellip; Dat zij bloot is\u0026hellip; die schoentjes\u0026hellip; dat deze man opgeknoopt wordt\u0026hellip; het pijpje in de mond\u0026hellip; dat maansikkeltje, en dat allemaal in \u0026eacute;\u0026eacute;n huiskamer\u0026hellip; En het is nog geloofwaardig ook.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Hou je van Soutine?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: Er is een schilderij van hem, \u003cem\u003eMoeder en kind\u003c/em\u003e, dat ik prachtig vind. Dat kan ik niet, zoiets eenvoudigs. Ik heb altijd een sterk onderwerp nodig om dezelfde ontroering op te roepen.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Het tafereel in het schilderij \u0026lsquo;Voetballers I\u0026rsquo;, waarin enkele voetballers een ploegmaat op de grond klemmen en de hals van een colafles tussen zijn billen porren, heb je dat werkelijk meegemaakt?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: Ja. Ik heb jarenlang gevoetbald. Zo was het. De modder op de vloer die van je voetbalschoenen viel. De shirts en de kleedkamer zagen er ook zo uit.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Waarom werd die jongen zo vernederd?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: Hij was nogal zwaar en groot.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Zoals de mollige man in de film \u0026lsquo;Deliverance\u0026rsquo;, wiens billen ook bloot komen als hij probeert weg te krabbelen\u0026hellip;\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: En die gedwongen wordt te knorren als een varken, ja. Die film heeft een grote indruk op mij gemaakt. Ik zag hem voor het eerst toen ik op een avond alleen thuis was\u0026hellip; Later heb ik begrepen dat zulke situaties ook hier voorkomen. Niet alleen bij de Cajuns, in ontoegankelijke wouden in de Verenigde Staten, maar ook in Nederland. Je hebt hier ook van die vrijwel ontoegankelijke dorpen, met gesloten geloofsgemeenschappen. Het is moeilijk om er binnen te komen en zelf komen ze bijna niet buiten. Je krijgt dan dezelfde verschijnselen\u0026hellip; Inteelt\u0026hellip; Zo erg was het nu wel niet in Hengelo, maar\u0026hellip; Neem bijvoorbeeld mijn schilderij \u003cem\u003eJongen\u003c/em\u003e \u003cem\u003een\u003c/em\u003e \u003cem\u003emeisje\u003c/em\u003e. De sc\u0026egrave;ne speelt zich af in een soort park, in een waterwingebied. Toen ik er enkele jaren geleden terugkeerde om foto\u0026rsquo;s te maken, zag het er allemaal veel dreigender uit dan ik me herinnerde. Je had het moerassige gedeelte, daar kwamen de homo\u0026rsquo;s samen, er was een mooi eilandje voor de naturisten, en er was ook een plek waar de aso\u0026rsquo;s samenkwamen. Op een avond lag ik daar met een vriendin en werden we gestoord door iemand die voortdurend heen en weer reed met een brommertje, tot ik met een bierflesje gooide. Op het ogenblik dat ik zag dat het ging om een familielid, kwam er achter mij een ander familielid uit de bosjes tevoorschijn\u0026hellip;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Twee werkelijkheden die naast elkaar bestaan, een harmonieuze en een duistere, zoals in de meeste films van David Lynch?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: Zoals in \u003cem\u003eBlue Velvet\u003c/em\u003e, ja, waarbij je eerst een gemoedelijk tafereel ziet, een man die zijn grasveld sproeit, waarop de camera je meeneemt in het gehoorkanaal van een afgesneden oor.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- In \u0026lsquo;Fire Walk With Me\u0026rsquo; ligt het beeld als een dun vlies over de ruis gespannen en af toe breekt de ruis erdoor.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: Is dat zo? Ik dacht dat ik een slechte kopie gehuurd had.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- Die dubbele wereld van Lynch lijkt een pendant te vinden in het schilderij \u0026lsquo;Jongen en Meisje\u0026rsquo;, waarin de intimiteit voelbaar is, maar terzelfdertijd bijna uiteenbrokkelt in de ruis van een lepreuze, schiftende materie. Ik begrijp dat sommige mensen zich onbehaaglijk voelen bij het kijken naar jouw schilderijen.\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: Toen \u003cem\u003eSweet Violence\u003c/em\u003e vorig jaar werd verwijderd van een tentoonstelling, heb ik een rechtszaak aanhangig gemaakt tegen de Nederlandse staat, omdat ik niet beschouwd wilde worden als een schilder van pornografie met kinderen. Uiteindelijk hebben ze het schilderij terug moeten hangen\u0026hellip; Ik had niet verwacht dat een schilderij zoveel ophef kon maken. De tegenstanders van \u003cem\u003eSweet\u003c/em\u003e \u003cem\u003eViolence\u003c/em\u003e vinden dat een schilderij niet te expliciet mag zijn. Als de toeschouwers het gesuggereerde tafereel in hun hoofd kunnen voltooien, wordt er genoeg getoond, vinden ze\u0026hellip; Ken je het \u0026lsquo;Oordeel van Cambyses\u0026rsquo;? Een tweeluik van Gerard David. Het vertelt een Perzisch verhaal over een rechter die veroordeeld en gevild wordt. Het schilderij moest de rechters tot onkreukbaarheid aansporen\u0026hellip; Kijk, hier heb je het\u0026hellip; Er ontbreekt misschien een beetje bloed, maar verder zie ik niet wat er aan de verbeelding van de toeschouwers wordt overgelaten.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cem\u003e- In het begin van ons gesprek vertelde je dat je momenteel boeken aan het lezen bent die geschreven zijn door mensen die een concentratie- of vernietigingskamp overleefd hebben. Heb je ook werk van Primo Levi gelezen?\u003c/em\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: Mijn voornemen een schilderij over de tweede wereldoorlog te maken is juist gebaseerd op het einde van Levis boek \u003cem\u003eIs\u003c/em\u003e \u003cem\u003edit\u003c/em\u003e \u003cem\u003eeen\u003c/em\u003e \u003cem\u003emens?\u003c/em\u003e. De Duitsers hebben Ausschwitz verlaten, maar in afwachting van de komst van de geallieerden moeten de zieken, die werden achtergelaten, zich nog zien te redden. Ze hebben zich gebarricadeerd in de ziekenbarakken, om zich te beschermen tegen de stervenden. Voortdurend horen ze het gehuil van de mensen die sterven. Dan vinden ze aardappelen. Ze gaan ergens heel veel bevroren aardappelen opgraven en dan beginnen ze voor elkaar te koken, aardappelsoep en andere gerechten met aardappelen. Dat vind ik een prachtig moment. Vroeger heb ik eens een schilderij gemaakt van mensen die in een soort hok soep zitten te eten. Tijdens de vernissage kwam een bejaarde dame mij telkens weer allerlei vragen stellen, maar ik begreep eigenlijk niet goed waarom. Tot ze vertelde dat ze in een jappenkamp had gezeten en dat mijn schilderij haar aan dat kamp had doen denken. Toen ik later las dat de schilderijen van Anselm Kiefer in het begin vooral gekocht werden door joodse verzamelaars, dacht ik dat ze dat misschien deden omdat de schoonheid van de schilderijen een zin gaf aan wat ze hebben meegemaakt, maar nu denk ik dat ze misschien een soort van bevrijding ervaren, omdat hun ervaringen ter sprake komen. Zelf kunnen ze er moeilijk over praten, want niemand begrijpt hun. Misschien zijn ze blij dat iemand, ook al heeft hij of zij nooit zoiets verschrikkelijks beleefd, toch een vorm voor de ontzetting heeft gezocht en misschien ook gevonden.\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nMontagne de Miel, 27 juli 1998\u003c/p\u003e\r\n"},{"locale":"fr","short_description":"","description":"\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n__________\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nHans Theys\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cb\u003eBoots and Slippers\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nA conversation with Ronald Ophuis\u003c/b\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003ci\u003eMonday, 20 July. Ronald Ophuis has tidied his studio. Brushes and palette knives have been sorted into separate piles. A row of palettes has been propped up against the wall. His painting clothes are hanging in a corner. On the wall is a large portrait of a young black man who is holding up a gun. He is leaning slightly backwards and you can sense his skinny legs through his jeans. The sandal on his left foot reveals crooked toes. Next to a number of opened art books is a row of photos of a fat man and a blonde woman with naked breasts, her right hand is holding a wooden handle that is wedged between the man\u0026#39;s legs. Above the sink is the portrait that Holbein made of his wife and two children just before he left for London. Ophuis\u0026nbsp;shows me a small book called \u0026lsquo;Piss on it\u0026rsquo; (Een ondergezeken pistool) and was written by the Russian poet Aleksandr Brener, who was sent to prison for five months in the Netherlands for spraying a green dollar sign on a painting by Malevitch. I open the book and discover that the poet once disrupted a cultural event by dressing up as Batman and yelling out \u0026#39;Batman forever!\u0026#39; He also attempted to give a pair of slippers to a general \u0026ldquo;so that he would be less inclined to think of boots\u0026rdquo;. Country music is wafting softly from small loudspeakers. And it is Ophuis who asks the first question.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Do you know this music?\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Hank Williams?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Yes\u0026hellip; Just regular, everyday stories. I find them powerful. When I was a kid, I tried to draw comic books but I never got beyond the title page because I couldn\u0026#39;t make up stories. I want my paintings to tell stories.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Do you have a story for your next painting?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; I\u0026#39;d like to make a painting about old people in a convalescent home. I\u0026#39;m pretty clear about that. Now the question is whether they will be sleeping on their beds or sitting on chairs. Are they in a rehabilitation room, are they bowling or do they have to be bathed? All that\u0026#39;s something that still has to be worked out. I also want to make a painting about the Second World War. Right now, I\u0026#39;m reading books written by people who survived the concentration camps. And I\u0026#39;d like to paint it in the same way as the painting by Van Eyck that you can see over there: the one with the three crosses. It\u0026rsquo;s a painting with lots of people and up till now I\u0026#39;ve never included more than four or five people in a painting.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Do you always work on one painting at a time?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Yes. I\u0026rsquo;ve just finished \u0026rsquo;Miscarriage\u0026rsquo;. Generally, I spend three or four months working on a single painting but this time it\u0026#39;s taken almost a year. Not because of problems with the painting, but due to other factors in my life. In fact, it\u0026#39;s still incomplete. The drawing of the woman\u0026#39;s head is slightly to sharp. At first, I liked it that way but since then I made a drawing that I think works better.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Why have you painted the tiles in relief?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Because I believe that\u0026rsquo;s the best way to paint tiles. You can feel that they\u0026rsquo;re tiles.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Van Eyck wouldn\u0026rsquo;t have painted them in that way.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; No, but Rembrandt would have.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- There\u0026rsquo;s an iron clamp that attaches the lead pipe to the wall. The relief technique gives it a humorous appearance. \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis : I\u0026rsquo;m particularly pleased with that dingy brown layer of glue where a sticker has been removed.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Why do you read books about Piero della Francesca and El Greco?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Because Piero della Francesca made a painting with an old man and an old woman\u0026hellip; I don\u0026#39;t know many painters who have painted old people\u0026hellip; Recently I\u0026#39;ve been studying El Greco\u0026#39;s work because he uses so much white. That\u0026#39;s something that l always do although I\u0026#39;m trying to change my ways. Yet, when I try a different approach, it ends up looking yellow-ish\u0026hellip; And for me, it ceases to be credible because it looks like something that was painted.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- You could also opt to paint in layers. \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Yes, but then each layer would have to succeed immediately because you can\u0026#39;t make corrections without having to start the whole thing over again.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Where did you meet the toilet bowl? \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: In a house where I used to live.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- And you went back there to photograph it? \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Yes.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- On your studio floor are photos of a corpulent man behind the wheel of his modest family car who\u0026#39;s being jerked off by a prostitute. Do you first direct these scenes and then photograph them? \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; I do.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Bacon also worked from photographs. \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; As did Munch and Courbet. I think \u0026lsquo;The Funeral at 0rnans\u0026rsquo; was made from photograph. And then there\u0026#39;s Max Beckmann\u0026hellip; This is a great work by Beckmann\u0026hellip;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- \u0026lsquo;The Night\u0026rsquo; from 1918. What do you like about it? Is it the composition?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; It\u0026#39;s the composition but also the narrative elements\u0026hellip; The fact that she\u0026#39;s naked\u0026hellip; those shoes\u0026hellip; that the man is strung up\u0026hellip; the pipe in his mouth\u0026hellip; the sickle moon, that it\u0026#39;s all taking place in a living room and you still believe it.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Do you like Soutine?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; There\u0026rsquo;s a painting by him called \u0026lsquo;Mother and Child\u0026rsquo; that I really like. I can\u0026#39;t paint things that simple. I always need a strong subject so as to be able to create a similar level of emotion.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- There\u0026#39;s a scene in your painting \u0026lsquo;Soccer Players l\u0026rsquo; where a number of players are holding down a team mate and are shoving the neck of a Coca Cola bottle between his buttocks. Is this something you\u0026#39;ve actually experienced? \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Yes. I\u0026#39;ve played soccer for years. And that\u0026#39;s what happened. The mud on the floor from your boots, the shirts and the changing room looked just like that.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Why was that kid picked on? \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; He was rather stout.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Like the stout guy in the film \u0026lsquo;Deliverance\u0026rsquo; whose backside is exposed when he tries to scramble away. \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; And who is forced to grunt like a pig\u0026hellip; I was really impressed by that film. I first saw it one evening at home\u0026hellip; Later I realized that these things also happen here. Not just amongst the Cajuns in remote areas of the United States but also right here in the Netherlands. Here too, there are villages that are both relatively isolated and religiously fundamentalist. Outsiders are excluded and the inhabitants have little contact with the \u0026lsquo;outside\u0026rsquo; world. These things happen here as well. Inbreeding\u0026hellip; It wasn\u0026#39;t that bad in Hengelo, at least not quite\u0026hellip; But take, for instance, my painting \u0026lsquo;Boy and Girl\u0026rsquo;. The scene is in a kind of park, in a lake area. When I went back some years ago to take photos, it all looked far more threatening than the way I remembered it. There was a marshy bit where the gay men met, there was a beautiful island for the nudists and there was also a place where the weirdos congregated. One evening I was lying there with a girlfriend and we were disturbed by someone constantly riding back and forth on a moped until finally I chucked a beer bottle at him. At exactly the moment that realized that he was a relative of mine, another relative was emerging from the bushes behind me\u0026hellip;\u0026nbsp;\u003ci\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Two realities that exist simultaneously: a harmonious one and a sinister version. This sounds like something out of a David Lynch film. \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Yes, like in \u0026lsquo;Blue Velvet\u0026rsquo; where first you see a pleasant scene of a man watering his lawn and then the camera zooms into the auditory duct of a severed ear.\u003ci\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- In \u0026lsquo;Fire Walk with Me\u0026rsquo;, the image is like a fragile membrane stretched across the white noise which occasionally breaks through.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Really? always thought that there was something wrong with the copy I rented.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- When Laura Palmer is murdered in the train carriage they added several frames of graphically designed lightening to the noise.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; I didn\u0026#39;t know that.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- In your painting \u0026lsquo;Boy and Girl\u0026rsquo; the intimacy is palpable yet is virtually disintegrating in the noise of the leprous and clotting paint. The scenes in your paintings often take place in enclosed spaces. In \u0026#39;Sweet Violence\u0026#39; even the ceiling has been painted yet in \u0026#39;Boy and Girl, where the theme seems to be the intimacy between people, you were left feeling unprotected. Even the yoghurt-shake carton is left standing on its own.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; When my panting \u0026lsquo;Sweet Violence\u0026rsquo; was removed from an exhibition in 1997, I sued the Dutch state because I did not want to be viewed as a painter of child pornography. Finally, the authorities were forced to return the painting to the show. I hadn\u0026#39;t expected that a painting could cause so much commotion.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- People think that the things that aren\u0026#39;t discussed simply don\u0026#39;t exist. And then you depict them.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; The opponents of \u0026lsquo;Sweet Violence\u0026rsquo; feel that a painting should not be too explicit. If the viewer can use his or her imagination to complete the suggested scene, they feel that there is no need to show more\u0026hellip; Do you know \u0026lsquo;The Judgement of Cambyses\u0026rsquo;? It\u0026#39;s a diptych by Gerard David. The story comes from Persia and concerns a judge who is condemned and is flayed alive. The painting was intended to promote the integrity of judges. Look, here it is\u0026hellip;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- The judge is wearing boots and slippers. In the first painting, he is wearing them on top of each other and in the second painting they are standing at the foot of the torture table\u0026hellip; \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Perhaps there\u0026#39;s not enough blood but otherwise I don\u0026#39;t see that much has been left viewer\u0026#39;s imagination\u0026hellip;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- You mentioned earlier that you\u0026#39;re currently reading about people who survived the German concentration camps. Are you also familiar with the work of Primo Levi?\u0026nbsp;\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: My decision to make a painting about the Second World War is actually based on the end of Levi\u0026#39;s book \u0026lsquo;If This ls A Man\u0026rsquo;. The Germans have abandoned Auschwitz but, although they expect that the allies will arrive soon, the ailing inmates still have to try to survive. They have barricaded themselves in the field hospital so as to protect themselves against the dying. Constantly they hear the cries of people perishing. Then they discover potatoes. They dig up a mass of frozen potatoes and they begin to cook for each other: potato soup and other dishes with potatoes. That\u0026#39;s an extraordinary moment. I once made a painting of people sitting in a kind of hut eating soup. During the opening of the show, an old lady kept approaching me with all kinds of questions although I couldn\u0026#39;t quite work out why. But then she told me that she\u0026#39;d been in a Japanese camp and that my painting reminded her of that. Later I read that at first Anselm Kiefer\u0026#39;s paintings were mainly bought by Jewish collectors and I thought that perhaps they did this because Kiefer\u0026#39;s aesthetic makes sense of what they have been through. Now I believe that they may experience the paintings as a kind of liberation because their trauma is actually being discussed. It is difficult for them to talk about the past because nobody understands them. Even if the artist has never experienced anything so terrible, perhaps these people are happy that he or she has tried to give shape to the horror and may have possibly succeeded.\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nMontagne de Miel, 27 July 1998\u003c/p\u003e\r\n"},{"locale":"ru","short_description":"","description":""},{"locale":"de","short_description":"","description":"\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n__________\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nHans Theys\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cb\u003eBoots and Slippers\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nA conversation with Ronald Ophuis\u003c/b\u003e\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003ci\u003eMonday, 20 July. Ronald Ophuis has tidied his studio. Brushes and palette knives have been sorted into separate piles. A row of palettes has been propped up against the wall. His painting clothes are hanging in a corner. On the wall is a large portrait of a young black man who is holding up a gun. He is leaning slightly backwards and you can sense his skinny legs through his jeans. The sandal on his left foot reveals crooked toes. Next to a number of opened art books is a row of photos of a fat man and a blonde woman with naked breasts, her right hand is holding a wooden handle that is wedged between the man\u0026#39;s legs. Above the sink is the portrait that Holbein made of his wife and two children just before he left for London. Ophuis\u0026nbsp;shows me a small book called \u0026lsquo;Piss on it\u0026rsquo; (Een ondergezeken pistool) and was written by the Russian poet Aleksandr Brener, who was sent to prison for five months in the Netherlands for spraying a green dollar sign on a painting by Malevitch. I open the book and discover that the poet once disrupted a cultural event by dressing up as Batman and yelling out \u0026#39;Batman forever!\u0026#39; He also attempted to give a pair of slippers to a general \u0026ldquo;so that he would be less inclined to think of boots\u0026rdquo;. Country music is wafting softly from small loudspeakers. And it is Ophuis who asks the first question.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Do you know this music?\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Hank Williams?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Yes\u0026hellip; Just regular, everyday stories. I find them powerful. When I was a kid, I tried to draw comic books but I never got beyond the title page because I couldn\u0026#39;t make up stories. I want my paintings to tell stories.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Do you have a story for your next painting?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; I\u0026#39;d like to make a painting about old people in a convalescent home. I\u0026#39;m pretty clear about that. Now the question is whether they will be sleeping on their beds or sitting on chairs. Are they in a rehabilitation room, are they bowling or do they have to be bathed? All that\u0026#39;s something that still has to be worked out. I also want to make a painting about the Second World War. Right now, I\u0026#39;m reading books written by people who survived the concentration camps. And I\u0026#39;d like to paint it in the same way as the painting by Van Eyck that you can see over there: the one with the three crosses. It\u0026rsquo;s a painting with lots of people and up till now I\u0026#39;ve never included more than four or five people in a painting.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Do you always work on one painting at a time?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Yes. I\u0026rsquo;ve just finished \u0026rsquo;Miscarriage\u0026rsquo;. Generally, I spend three or four months working on a single painting but this time it\u0026#39;s taken almost a year. Not because of problems with the painting, but due to other factors in my life. In fact, it\u0026#39;s still incomplete. The drawing of the woman\u0026#39;s head is slightly to sharp. At first, I liked it that way but since then I made a drawing that I think works better.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Why have you painted the tiles in relief?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Because I believe that\u0026rsquo;s the best way to paint tiles. You can feel that they\u0026rsquo;re tiles.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Van Eyck wouldn\u0026rsquo;t have painted them in that way.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; No, but Rembrandt would have.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- There\u0026rsquo;s an iron clamp that attaches the lead pipe to the wall. The relief technique gives it a humorous appearance. \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis : I\u0026rsquo;m particularly pleased with that dingy brown layer of glue where a sticker has been removed.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Why do you read books about Piero della Francesca and El Greco?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Because Piero della Francesca made a painting with an old man and an old woman\u0026hellip; I don\u0026#39;t know many painters who have painted old people\u0026hellip; Recently I\u0026#39;ve been studying El Greco\u0026#39;s work because he uses so much white. That\u0026#39;s something that l always do although I\u0026#39;m trying to change my ways. Yet, when I try a different approach, it ends up looking yellow-ish\u0026hellip; And for me, it ceases to be credible because it looks like something that was painted.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- You could also opt to paint in layers. \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Yes, but then each layer would have to succeed immediately because you can\u0026#39;t make corrections without having to start the whole thing over again.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Where did you meet the toilet bowl? \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: In a house where I used to live.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- And you went back there to photograph it? \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Yes.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- On your studio floor are photos of a corpulent man behind the wheel of his modest family car who\u0026#39;s being jerked off by a prostitute. Do you first direct these scenes and then photograph them? \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; I do.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Bacon also worked from photographs. \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; As did Munch and Courbet. I think \u0026lsquo;The Funeral at 0rnans\u0026rsquo; was made from photograph. And then there\u0026#39;s Max Beckmann\u0026hellip; This is a great work by Beckmann\u0026hellip;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- \u0026lsquo;The Night\u0026rsquo; from 1918. What do you like about it? Is it the composition?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; It\u0026#39;s the composition but also the narrative elements\u0026hellip; The fact that she\u0026#39;s naked\u0026hellip; those shoes\u0026hellip; that the man is strung up\u0026hellip; the pipe in his mouth\u0026hellip; the sickle moon, that it\u0026#39;s all taking place in a living room and you still believe it.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Do you like Soutine?\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; There\u0026rsquo;s a painting by him called \u0026lsquo;Mother and Child\u0026rsquo; that I really like. I can\u0026#39;t paint things that simple. I always need a strong subject so as to be able to create a similar level of emotion.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- There\u0026#39;s a scene in your painting \u0026lsquo;Soccer Players l\u0026rsquo; where a number of players are holding down a team mate and are shoving the neck of a Coca Cola bottle between his buttocks. Is this something you\u0026#39;ve actually experienced? \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Yes. I\u0026#39;ve played soccer for years. And that\u0026#39;s what happened. The mud on the floor from your boots, the shirts and the changing room looked just like that.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Why was that kid picked on? \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; He was rather stout.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Like the stout guy in the film \u0026lsquo;Deliverance\u0026rsquo; whose backside is exposed when he tries to scramble away. \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; And who is forced to grunt like a pig\u0026hellip; I was really impressed by that film. I first saw it one evening at home\u0026hellip; Later I realized that these things also happen here. Not just amongst the Cajuns in remote areas of the United States but also right here in the Netherlands. Here too, there are villages that are both relatively isolated and religiously fundamentalist. Outsiders are excluded and the inhabitants have little contact with the \u0026lsquo;outside\u0026rsquo; world. These things happen here as well. Inbreeding\u0026hellip; It wasn\u0026#39;t that bad in Hengelo, at least not quite\u0026hellip; But take, for instance, my painting \u0026lsquo;Boy and Girl\u0026rsquo;. The scene is in a kind of park, in a lake area. When I went back some years ago to take photos, it all looked far more threatening than the way I remembered it. There was a marshy bit where the gay men met, there was a beautiful island for the nudists and there was also a place where the weirdos congregated. One evening I was lying there with a girlfriend and we were disturbed by someone constantly riding back and forth on a moped until finally I chucked a beer bottle at him. At exactly the moment that realized that he was a relative of mine, another relative was emerging from the bushes behind me\u0026hellip;\u0026nbsp;\u003ci\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- Two realities that exist simultaneously: a harmonious one and a sinister version. This sounds like something out of a David Lynch film. \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Yes, like in \u0026lsquo;Blue Velvet\u0026rsquo; where first you see a pleasant scene of a man watering his lawn and then the camera zooms into the auditory duct of a severed ear.\u003ci\u003e\u0026nbsp;\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- In \u0026lsquo;Fire Walk with Me\u0026rsquo;, the image is like a fragile membrane stretched across the white noise which occasionally breaks through.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Really? always thought that there was something wrong with the copy I rented.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- When Laura Palmer is murdered in the train carriage they added several frames of graphically designed lightening to the noise.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; I didn\u0026#39;t know that.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- In your painting \u0026lsquo;Boy and Girl\u0026rsquo; the intimacy is palpable yet is virtually disintegrating in the noise of the leprous and clotting paint. The scenes in your paintings often take place in enclosed spaces. In \u0026#39;Sweet Violence\u0026#39; even the ceiling has been painted yet in \u0026#39;Boy and Girl, where the theme seems to be the intimacy between people, you were left feeling unprotected. Even the yoghurt-shake carton is left standing on its own.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; When my panting \u0026lsquo;Sweet Violence\u0026rsquo; was removed from an exhibition in 1997, I sued the Dutch state because I did not want to be viewed as a painter of child pornography. Finally, the authorities were forced to return the painting to the show. I hadn\u0026#39;t expected that a painting could cause so much commotion.\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- People think that the things that aren\u0026#39;t discussed simply don\u0026#39;t exist. And then you depict them.\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; The opponents of \u0026lsquo;Sweet Violence\u0026rsquo; feel that a painting should not be too explicit. If the viewer can use his or her imagination to complete the suggested scene, they feel that there is no need to show more\u0026hellip; Do you know \u0026lsquo;The Judgement of Cambyses\u0026rsquo;? It\u0026#39;s a diptych by Gerard David. The story comes from Persia and concerns a judge who is condemned and is flayed alive. The painting was intended to promote the integrity of judges. Look, here it is\u0026hellip;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- The judge is wearing boots and slippers. In the first painting, he is wearing them on top of each other and in the second painting they are standing at the foot of the torture table\u0026hellip; \u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis:\u0026nbsp; Perhaps there\u0026#39;s not enough blood but otherwise I don\u0026#39;t see that much has been left viewer\u0026#39;s imagination\u0026hellip;\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003e\u003ci\u003e- You mentioned earlier that you\u0026#39;re currently reading about people who survived the German concentration camps. Are you also familiar with the work of Primo Levi?\u0026nbsp;\u003c/i\u003e\u003c/p\u003e\r\n\r\n\u003cp style=\"text-align: justify;\"\u003eOphuis: My decision to make a painting about the Second World War is actually based on the end of Levi\u0026#39;s book \u0026lsquo;If This ls A Man\u0026rsquo;. The Germans have abandoned Auschwitz but, although they expect that the allies will arrive soon, the ailing inmates still have to try to survive. They have barricaded themselves in the field hospital so as to protect themselves against the dying. Constantly they hear the cries of people perishing. Then they discover potatoes. They dig up a mass of frozen potatoes and they begin to cook for each other: potato soup and other dishes with potatoes. That\u0026#39;s an extraordinary moment. I once made a painting of people sitting in a kind of hut eating soup. During the opening of the show, an old lady kept approaching me with all kinds of questions although I couldn\u0026#39;t quite work out why. But then she told me that she\u0026#39;d been in a Japanese camp and that my painting reminded her of that. Later I read that at first Anselm Kiefer\u0026#39;s paintings were mainly bought by Jewish collectors and I thought that perhaps they did this because Kiefer\u0026#39;s aesthetic makes sense of what they have been through. Now I believe that they may experience the paintings as a kind of liberation because their trauma is actually being discussed. It is difficult for them to talk about the past because nobody understands them. Even if the artist has never experienced anything so terrible, perhaps these people are happy that he or she has tried to give shape to the horror and may have possibly succeeded.\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\n\u003cbr /\u003e\r\nMontagne de Miel, 27 July 1998\u003c/p\u003e\r\n"},{"locale":"es","short_description":"","description":""},{"locale":"el","short_description":"","description":""}],"actors":[]}